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View Poll Results: Do You Agree With the EU Ballot Screen Forced By The EU
Yes 0 0%
No 7 87.50%
Undecided 1 12.50%
Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-12-2009   #1
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Microsoft Might Finally Get Past The EU

Now if you haven't heard over the past few months what's being going on, the EU has been ****ed off at Microsoft because IE is bundled with Windows and finally as a compromise, European (key word European, anywhere else in the world your copy of Windows will not do this, similar to how European countries had N editions of Windows that didn't include Windows Media Player) Windows copies will eventually start asking you which browser you want to use and this isn't just copies of Windows 7, in the case of Vista and Windows XP a new update will be pushed out that after install will present you with the ballot screen which will show a randomized choice of browsers to choose from with Chrome, Firefox, IE, Opera and Safari at least being the main choices.

Personally I think its a gigantic load of bull****, it's Microsoft's ****ing product, they shouldn't have to advertise for other people's products within their own product plus it's not like they aren't stopping you from downloading another browser, all you have to do is use IE for less than 10 minutes. Plus as many people point out, is Apple getting this crap aimed at them or even Linux (although to be fair Linux could have anything included by default due to the operating system itself being open-source) for that matter, no and they probably never will despite Safari being loaded by default on Mac's and Firefox being the usual default on Linux distributions.



Also that ballot screen is just a mock-up, no ones really sure what it will look like but it probably won't appear inside Internet Explorer itself.
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Last edited by X_Racer1; 07-12-2009 at 02:14 PM..
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Old 07-12-2009   #2
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I guess its good that they're giving people the option but I must agree with X_Racer, they shouldn't have to advertise other companies products within their own products. if people wanna download a different browser than they can just download something else so they don't have to use ****ty Internet Explorer browsers.
IE is Microsoft's product so of course they're gonna want to get people to use their product instead of advertising other companies products
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Old 07-12-2009   #3
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wtf, as much as i hate windows like you said its their product! if they want to have that as a defualt browser then thats great! like google OS will be chrome, and like you said safari is default for macs! they should still make it default and maybe on the first load up ask if you want to download another? :s
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Old 07-12-2009   #4
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You guys need a history lesson to know why this is being done...look up the history of Netscape to find out.

This was initiated before any of those other browsers either existed or had a measurable market share...the fact that Firefox, Chrome and Opera are even at the point they could be on that list is partially because of the antitrust investigations and the surrounding media coverage.
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Old 07-12-2009   #5
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I 100% agree, I'm from the UK, and this decision really ****es me off. Probably 70% of computer users wouldn't know how to get on the internet without clicking Internet Explorer first. I guarantee it, even I'll admit, years ago when the internet was new (dial up), I had no idea how to make it work.

The only thing the EU should force MS to do is give users the option to uninstall their software. Because I'd much rather have Windows Media Player, Internet Explorer and Microsoft Security Essentials install during the Windows install, than have no media player, no computer protection and no browser.
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Old 07-12-2009   #6
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I think all this BS evolving around Microsoft lately is stupid. Its MICROSOFT WINDOWS, IE is a MICROSOFT product, just like everyone else has stated. You want to throw a fit about IE being on your computer? Go buy a Mac.

To be honest I see this as a nusciance. When I got my new PC or reinstalled 7 on my laptop I just need to jump online real fast and IE was already there ready for me, its nice. I like IE, I use that and Firefox, so I see no problem with it. Now its differnt, ill have to install the OS, then install IE, then isntall FF, then get online. Thank god this isn't coming to America.

Whats next? IE cant be on the Zune? Windows isnt allowed to support windows based file formats?

Why dont we get mad at Norton being on every pre built computer there is? Its more of a nusicance than IE ever will be. Dont know how many people had me uninstall the stupid thing to put real anti virus programs on it.

Completely agree with the above comment. Why doesnt Apple get hate for pre installing Safari? Answer : Apple isnt rich and easy to take money from like Microsoft.
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Old 07-12-2009   #7
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I think the general consensus is that this is stupid. I agree 100%.
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Old 07-12-2009   #8
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People will switch away from IE regardless.

Having a browser ready to go from boot though would be nice, this solution doesnt look
very smooth
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Old 08-12-2009   #9
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MS should just have firefox and IE pre installed into the OS installation. Have one extra window that says "would you like FF or IE?" Then have IE already selected with a 1 minute countdown timer. Thats for people like me that start the instalation and leave lol.

Thats it, just FF and IE. Firefox/Netscape are the ones causing all the trouble so just make the whiny people happy and your good to go. There is absolutely no need for Safari (especially since its the complete rivaling platform) or the others to be included.

As for me im a wierd one that actually enjoys IE...runs fine on my computer, always has.
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Old 09-12-2009   #10
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This thread is amazing...I am going to bookmark this.

May be I am the only one old enough to have been there when this started...most of the arguments here are based on experience due to the after-effects of Microsoft's actions.

Anyone in this thread heard of Real Player? Anyone here ever used Netscape 4? Anyone here know that Opera used to be ad-ware? Anyone here used Windows 95?
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Old 09-12-2009   #11
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Well I've used RealPlayer, long before it got to the state it is in now (which by almost any definition is crapware, I mean the BBC has a special agreement with Real just to have a version that isn't total crapware for use with the iPlayer), back when it was a popular format on the Internet, Netscape was something I used way back on my Windows 98 machine, Opera was adware I did know about but I sadly haven't used Windows 95, I'm still working on getting a copy of Windows 98 running in VirtualBox on my Windows 7 machine, then maybe Windows 3.1.

Although in Netscape's case they didn't help themselves, they were falling behind in performance and experienced a lot of bugs compared to IE, I mean yes Microsoft didn't help either but in those days the web was a different place and there was a effort to make IE your only choice back then because websites back then were coded sometimes to work only with specific browsers (I mean that still exists today, but to a much lesser extent, plus there is usually a workaround) plus IE was free with every machine, Netscape wasn't till 1998 and then getting a new browser wasn't as simple as it is today.
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Old 09-12-2009   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giblet75 View Post
This thread is amazing...I am going to bookmark this.

May be I am the only one old enough to have been there when this started...most of the arguments here are based on experience due to the after-effects of Microsoft's actions.

Anyone in this thread heard of Real Player? Anyone here ever used Netscape 4? Anyone here know that Opera used to be ad-ware? Anyone here used Windows 95?
Yeah I've used RealPlayer (used to be decent until Media Player Classic came along), and Windows 95. I remember using Netscape very briefly (during the AOL browser days lol). I only used Opera once when my PC died.

I can see why the EU decided to do this, but isn't it MS' decision to put whatever they want to in their OS. As long as it isn't harmful to the user, or steals their data, they should be allowed to include whatever they want.
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Old 09-12-2009   #13
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Quote:
May be I am the only one old enough to have been there when this started...most of the arguments here are based on experience due to the after-effects of Microsoft's actions.

Anyone in this thread heard of Real Player? Anyone here ever used Netscape 4? Anyone here know that Opera used to be ad-ware? Anyone here used Windows 95?
No I know exactly when it started, MS took things a little far and got in trouble for it.

The problem I have is like this. You just opened a store, lets call it Walmart. In this store you sell computer stuff, but you have your own product to sell. With that in mind you have YOUR product displayed all pretty and dont really push the competing ones. Hell you go as far as to not sell some companies versions because their prices suck. Is it ok for me to walk in your store and say "Umm you put these other products with your product at equal display level, you offer these other companies no matter what, end of story"? And now your FORCED to do that and your business starts hurting because people are overlooking you now?

Obviously it doesn't happen because Walmart seriously does that everyday. Costco isn't even selling Coke products right now because of a disagrement. So why is it ok for Netscape to through a fit about what Microsoft pre installs on their products? Did Netscape help develope Windows? No.


Plus like X Racer said, other than the fact that some browsers are more secure, faster, more efficient etc...whats the big deal now? Its fairly simple to create a website that runs right on any browser now, the only ones that dont are extremely low budget sites. There really is nothing to control now at all. If anything FF would suffer because Id no longer have to visit their site to download FF, therefore i dont see the ads, dont have to disable the ask toolbar...etc.
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Old 10-12-2009   #14
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;-)
I am happy to have stimulated some discussion. Sorry if I came across crochety.

My problem mainly was with comments that said "everyone uses IE anyway" - that's the point.

Not sure if I am for or against the ballot. It is good to advertise that people have choice. One thing that Microsoft did (if I remember correctly) was to discourage OEMs from pre-installing alternate browsers. Windows 95 is significant because it was the last MS OS that didn't come with a browser pre-installed. Windows explorer and internet explorer became (almost) one in the same with Windows 98 - and what a POS IE 4 was!

I think part of why the EU is coming down so hard on MS is that the US was too soft. The horse _HAS_ left the barn at this stage, but what they did to (admittedly crappy) Real is more recent. They were trying to do similar things with Windows Defender (nudge out AV companies).

I understand Microsoft is huge and wants to expand their product offering to continue to grow, I just don't necessarily agree with their methods, some of their philosophies around product development and their philosophy of "just ship something to enter a new market, market the hell out of it, and actually build it properly in a revision or 2" (usually revision 3 is starting to look like a product worth being in the market (e.g. Zune)

Done rambling. Thanks for the discusion guys!
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Old 10-12-2009   #15
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Quote:
One thing that Microsoft did (if I remember correctly) was to discourage OEMs from pre-installing alternate browsers. Windows 95 is significant because it was the last MS OS that didn't come with a browser pre-installed.
I actually remember that, because internet was like a special privilage back in the day. You know when AOL would release a new version everyday haha.

Also If im not mistaken, wasn't all this started because MS updated Windows to disable Netscape?That ticked off the people using it, and obviously Netscape, which then basically went under and then Firefox was born.


I just dont think its right to tell Microsoft what they can and cant do with their own product. Unless your one of the paid workers developing the software, you have no say in the matter. For example with Zune. When I got it, it forces you to use the Zune software (I love it) so would it be ok for Apple to get mad it doesnt use Itunes? Or Realplayer? It also ditched the useless "plays on all" or whatever it is MS created, some people threw a fit about it, but no one really got outraged about it. Point is, if they didnt force Zune Marketplace on me, I probably would of stuck with something else. Im glad I didnt, but it also proves why their business model works.

Think of all the "clueless" people that are easy to persuade. You make fun of PC, they buy an Apple. you say Norton is the best virus program in the world, they go spend 50 bucks on it. You throw IE on PC's, they get used to it.

I dont like bloatware, but on my HP computer some of the HP programs were actually useful. Im glad it had them preinstalled on their product, even though deleting Norton is a pain in the ass all the time.
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